Logic 8 Pro Studio Torrent, stop it!

September 14th, 2007 Comments

I’ve had several hits regarding a Logic Pro Studio torrent.

While I know that Bittorrent can obviously be used for legal purposes (WoW patches, Linux distributions, etc..), as well as illegal purposes (95% of stuff on The Pirate Bay) I really don’t like this.

Yes, there is downloading stuff that’s a “Grey area”. It’s stuff that’s probably illegal (Watching the Daily Show on Miro), but isn’t harmful (often commercials are left in) and isn’t making anyone a profit. John Stewart doesn’t care, and neither does Stephen Colbert apparently. They make a mockery of it being on YouTube if anything.

However, people wanting to download Logic Studio Pro upset me.

“Why?”, you may ask.

First of all, you should look at the differences between Logic Pro and Logic Express and Garageband. If you are just doing music, “for fun” then Garageband should be all you need. It comes with every new Mac basically for free.

If you are a student, you can get Logic (either express or Pro) for a huge discount. At that discount, there is no reason to pirate it. If you don’t have the money for it at that point, just cut back on beer and drugs (or even coffee) for a week and you’ll have it. I am not indicating that everyone is an alcoholic, but seriously you can raise the money for Lopic Express in using minimal effort and cutting back on a few things.

Then look at Logic Pro vs Logic Express. If you “need” Logic Pro, so that you can have surround sound and some more professional features, then I’d say it’s damn likely that you are (or should be) making money from it. If you’re making money from it and pirating it, then that sucks.

It’s like a graphic arts house pirating Photoshop. I think a kid in high school pirating it is one thing, and not harmful. However a graphic arts house making a business off of the software (and it’s not just a plugin, it’s their main platform) is horrid.

If you can’t afford Logic Pro 8 then you don’t need it. If you don’t need it, why are you pirating it. In all seriousness, audio PROS need Logic Pro. You don’t need it for a podcast. You don’t need it to record yourself playing a song on your acoustic.

If you want some actual free (open source) multitrack programs there’s some good ones out there. Just Google for them.

But please, don’t pirate a piece of professional software for your professional studio. If you don’t have a professional studio, then use other software. It’s probably already on your computer (garageband), or at a nominal price (Logic Express, which containts 95% of the features).

Yes, Apple has removed the need for an XSKey. That is not a license to pirate it. It’s so that you don’t constantly have to drag around, break, lose, get replaced, have problems with an XSKey.


UPDATE: This post has gotten a TON of traffic here and generated far more discussion than I thought it would. I’m glad people are listening.

My position is pretty much the same, but maybe a little softer now. We all know we shouldn’t pirate software. Yea, Apple makes a ton of money, but that’s still not a justification for stealing. I still haven’t upgraded to Logic 8, because… I don’t have the money. I’m not at the same time claiming that I’ve never touched a bit-torrent program and have no pirated software.

Main point: If you have a studio that’s making money (at all) then you should buy your software/tools. If you’re 13 and in your bedroom, you aren’t going to kill anything by pirating it, but I just don’t see why you think you need professional software.

UPDATE 2: Looking back over the past year of comments on this a few things are pretty clear.

  1. Most of you haven’t actually read this post, but rather given a kneejerk reaction.
  2. You haven’t read other parts of my blog. Some of you think I don’t know what its like to be a poor musician, or attend college for music. I’ve been there and done that. I went to Berklee for 4 years. I worked in a recording studio for nearly 3.
  3. Also that many people are upset simply because of hivemind, follow the crowd attitudes. You honestly know the difference between right and wrong here, but you simply want to take the low road. That’s fine and I’m not judging you for that. I think you’re just feeling guilty, so you lash out.
  4. The personal attacks can stop anytime. I’ve been kind enough to allow any comments to stay here, even ones that are massive personal attacks, inaccurate, or uneducated. Let’s not ruin the party k?
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  • Lyric
    I appreciate your article on Logic 8 pro... Im trying to Learn about production personally and If I ever get the money to buy programs professionally then I will.... I want to make music worth making though so I will get Logic Studio Pro if its the best program for Making music, Would you mind giving me your e-mail/emailing me and/or add me as a friend on FB so we can discuss The music buisness and Music School and things of that nature
  • Abstract Clarity Productions
    As a working professional in the music biz I understand the concerns that software developers and musicians have with illegal downloading. However Apple is a computer company not a musical based company. They hurt the industry with their so called upgrades. If you've ran a professional studio using logic then you know what I mean. These upgrades are a planned way to make more money duh! Many of these so called upgrades already existed before the product they were "upgrading" was released to the public. Pirating is a double edged sword so swing carefully. Fuck Apple Fuck Microsoft and most of all fuck the way the sell us products that they are several years ahead of all ready.
  • Alex
    Chill out
  • Joe Maher
    I could not disagree with you more, David. As a supposed alcoholic and coffee addicted college student (neither of which I partake in imbibing, mind you), I don't have the hundreds of dollars that you so casually write off as nothing, thanks to a "huge" student discount. I feel that your post was extremely elitist and naive of the situation of musicians who lack the funds that you seem to have. It's as if you find it impossible that a serious musician and lover of music doesn't have hundreds of dollars to throw around. I've been making music for years now, and I love doing it, and I have never profited from it. Does that mean I have to use Garageband, as you suggest? Have you tried Garageband? It's a toy. It's for pre-teens to record riffs of Smoke on the Water onto. It is extremely limiting.
  • JW
    Cut back on coffee for a week and you'll have it.
  • LMT
    David, I appreciate your blog post about this topic as it actually changed my mind about pirated software. I was previously working with a pirated version of Logic and as I got used to the features (I previously only used pro tools), I bought a legal copy. Imagine my surprise when I realized the pirated version was seriously flawed and lacking many of the essential plug-ins and jam packs! Needless to say, I'm glad I bought the legal version. To the people that say the program is too expensive, they really cut the price by a LOT from what Logic 7 cost, and I think it's a reasonable price for all that comes with it. The various pirated versions out there are just not worth it!
  • shannon green
    thanks dudes
  • Corilo il Magnifico
    I love apple but I hate the prize of his products. Do you know how much is for a man of country here in italy 1299 € (the new iMac)??! And so I sad... Tengo na minchia tanta... Ma non tengo una lira... If you can reach the ammount of money that cost something, you have to work hard and buy legally... But if you don't have the possibility, pirate, but don't think that you are in the right... You are just a clodhopper... That's all i'm doing...
    Fuck Microsoft!!!!!!!!!
  • flp
    Ok. I am the LEGAL owner of all the software i have in my computer.

    As a legal client of logic since version 4 (youve been there as well for sure) I just think that the fees they apply to upgrade are just insane.
    The difference between buying the software new and upgrading is minimal. So basically they could not care less for the clients.
    They don't care at all for the people that have been there since the start and hence have upgrade fees that will be almost the same as buying the software some months later when it is discounted.

    Also the software in itself although is very good is missing key feature nowadays...

    So Ive bitten the bullet and instead of giving them another check worth almost the price of LOGIC PRO (8) Just for upgrading, I've bought a UAD2 and use it now with Ableton Live and Pro TOOLS LE (and I hate pro tools)

    Besides this. just face the fact that Logic is what it is now because Apple chose to have it BTIM available to any one that can get their hands on a serial.
    APPLE IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF SOTWARE, THEY SELL COMPUTERS....

    Long Live EMAGIC!
  • joe
    EVERYONE DOWNLOAD LOGIC STUDIO 8 FOR FREE RIGHT NOW! IT'S AWESOME!!
  • Spencer
    You guys are a bunch of socialist pussies. The fact of the matter is that if we lived in the jungle, you couldn't pirate anybodies hut or food, and just because it's through a computer doesn't mean you have the right to seize the product of someone elses work. I'm not on a high-horse, I pirate things from time-to-time, but I realize that the reason that these guys have nice cars and homes is because they MAKE things. WAH WAH I don't have any money so I have the right to steal. Be a MAN and produce something half-decent for society you moochers.
  • Papertape, you've got me caught. I made $3 last month from someone buying Logic Express :) Note that my Slicehost costs me $20/month, so I'm still at a loss... Oh well. All in fun

    I agree the world needs to adapt.
  • PaperTape
    and ohh if it wasn't for pirated software, you wouldn't be getting this many hots talking about Logic pro... now you will probably make some money off of it... I already see those Logic Studio ads for Amazon
  • PaperTape
    The whole internet era is taking the world by storm. It creates opportunities that were once limited to few. Back then, people look at producers and musicians wishing they have the tools and ability to do what they do, but now pirated programs give that talented kid to become a producer/musician of his dreams.

    The way I see the whole thing is this: when we "invaded" America, we turned land into a money making scheme. What was once truely the land of free, where the earth belongs to every living soul, became a land for those who has the money to buy. In terms we became money slaves.

    Perhaps this will evolve into a new way of living and economy. Instead of enslaving ourselves to companies just to have money to make ends meet, maybe one day we will be free. We will do things because we love to do them, not because our boss wants us to make profit for the company.

    As for piracy, it indicates how the world is changing and the develops need to adapt.
  • Great post man! Keep them coming. I agree 100% with you.
  • Who Am I To Have An Opinion
    I don't normally post on threads, anywhere, ever, but I am admittedly very fascinated by the "torrent wars" going on.

    Everyone is so up-in-arms about all this right now, what with Pirate Bay being on trial.

    I stumbled upon your blog, and I respect your opinion, and your request that people not pirate Logic, or any software you plan to make money on. This is a perfectly reasonable request.

    HOWEVER, I can't help but feel that the internet is outgrowing the human race a little. It has, in essence, become a "physical" form of our collective conscience. The exchange of information at an immediate pace, on a global level, has changed the way our world works. It is as simple as that. It is too late to stop illegal downloading, on any level.

    I am a musician and I am personally thrilled by the age we are living in. I don't expect to make any money at all by making music, because if I am worth my salt, people will like it and share it with each other. That's wonderful! Don't you all see??? Music is SUPPOSED to be free! It belongs to the air around us, not to us!

    As far as software is concerned, companies will simply have to change the way they make money, just like musicians. Musicians will inevitably be forced to earn their income by performance and merchandise. Software companies? Well, they're clever. They'll figure something out.

    I downloaded a torrent of Logic because I had read wonderful things about it. I am also a big Nine Inch Nails fan, and Apple has a video with Trent Reznor talking about how great MainStage is for their live show. I decided to check it out, so I downloaded a torrent on my girlfriend's Mac and I am floored. I have decided to (as quickly as possible) buy a Mac and Logic. I will never use a PC again. If Apple heard my testimony, do you really think they'd be upset about me downloading a torrent? They've likely made a fan-for-life out of me just because I went on a limb and decided to try something new.

    I did indeed read your blog. I am in no way trying to justify my stealing of Logic. Yes I know right from wrong. The argument I'm trying to make is, to quote an old wise man, "The times, they are a-changing."

    When mankind first developed the technology to record music, there were scores of people who were vehemently against the idea, claiming that music is 'meant to be experienced live'. Where would we be today if those people had gotten what they wanted, and we never started recording music???

    No one can stop this technology. It is here. Don't be afraid, embrace it. Celebrate. This is a wondrous time. Our generation are pioneers of something entirely new and fantastic. It is insane to me that anyone anywhere could waste their precious energy complaining about the fantastic abilities this technology affords us. Mark my words, I absolutely promise you, in ten years people will look back at all this and laugh. Our childrens' children will think it is bizarre and archaic that we bought songs for a dollar a piece when we were young.

    Correction: YOU bought songs for a dollar a piece. I got a torrent. I also posted a torrent of my most recent album (which I made with REGISTERED versions of Cubase and Reason). So, enjoy. And lighten up a little.
  • raban
    I run a studio. I have software I have bought and paid for, and software I have "borrowed". I'm glad torrents exist - I call it "try before you buy". There are two types of software I have paid for... software that does what it said it would, and software that absolutely @%#^#$^ did not. That only happened to me a few times before I realised to accurately judge the worth of a piece of complicated software such as Logic 8 Pro, you need to spend a good deal of time with it in a production environment. For example, I bought into ProTools... what a let down, in my experiernce it was buggiest piece of crap I've ever used. Great workflow, great environment - it was all basically awesome, except that it DIDN'T WORK PROPERLY. I have never spent so much time chasing tech support issues, and it kept me constantly behind Mac OS X updates (Digidesign taking months to get the latest protools version working with the latest OS upgrade - by the time they've done it, you're months behind again). Basically I got screwed. So, after a few experiences like this - I try before I buy. Now, if there was a way to walk into a car dealership, hit the "copy" button on my replicator and have an exact replica of one of the cars appear next to me I could drive off in - I would have no qualms about trying before I buy in that situation either. Especially if the car industry was such that you could continue to sell a car with a known fault that causes it to randomly explode on the freeway when all you were doing was *driving it correctly* (an analogy for the situation as it exists in software sometimes!). Yeah, maybe if I could *trust* software companies I wouldn't need to, but the fact is - I can't. So screw 'em, I want proof before I dish out. After I have proof, fine, heres your dollars. End of story.
  • Billy Ray
    He is so right, it worked for me. I work two jobs and am in school but all I had to do was stop feeding my baby for a week and a half and BAM. Logic Pro.
  • Hi Ben,

    If you look at Apple's quarterly reports, you'll see that they aren't making anywhere near 1000% profit margin on their income vs expenses.
  • ben
    If you want to pay too much money for a program thats up too you, but companys like apple make 1000% profit margins, pirates will never go away and are a thing of the future, so you may aswell join in. cunts
  • Bill Gates
    I totally agree with Bobby Valentino here, Lets keeping Fucking Steve Jobs up the ass, I mean I would really like to fuck him up the ass, for the amounts of Billions in a year he is taking from my company, with his fancy software and hardware products.

    Just don't Pirate my products guys, please only torrent Steve, not me OK, I will love you all long time, and may be suck your cocks as well.

    To the guy who made this Blog I think your an asshole, only because, you didn't my products, and software.

    I mean come on I am only a Trillionaire, I am trying to be the first Zillionaire, at least before that fucking Steve Jobs.

    I will let you in on a little secret, we made a bet, in our secret Billionaires Boys club, on who would be the first Zillionaire,.

    So please help me make my dreams come true please please please.

    Sincerely Yours

    Bill Gates

    CEO

    MICROSOFT.
  • Bobby Valentino
    Man, this guy makes me laugh, with comments like cut back on drugs and alcohol.

    Yo dude I wonder how much you been paying for your drugs and alcohol son, cause it seems like you been getting ripped off!!!

    Why don't you come to my part of town and I will sell it to you at a discounted price, so you can afford to keep buying all the latest software these global conglomerates keeping pushing out.

    Maybe in time I can then afford to buy rather than torrent.

    To all the pirates out there lets keep fucking Steve Jobs up the ass.

    No homo.
  • making money with music is not as easy as people think. I'm talking to all the people that have resigned themselves to making a living in music no matter what. When you live music and no nothing else that any other lifestyle would defeat the purpose to living. I have a pro studio and legally purchased all hardware and software. However, I also make beats and electronic music very seriously. But this is not something I expect to pay off for quite some time. I know if I keep my nose to the grind stone it will pay off eventually. But if you expect me to shell out every last cent for the software I employ to create my 'sound'. You can tack on another 5 years to my dream. Just to afford the fucking software. Thats how much it is to really make pro music. You really do need a beefy computer many HQ plugins a host.. keyboards etc... So I'm a full time student and have barely any free time, how am I suppsoed to raise like 10 Grand?? And how long am i supposed to wait with hundreds of ideas every day just getting wasted because you have to be upper middle class to afford software.. Fuck that. Music is the expression and release of everyone. You shouldn't have to have money to do it. And thats why a kid like me otherwise nothing special could have a rep like I do. And that shit you said about cutting back on coffee and alcohol and shit and you'll have several hundred cash within a week I really can't quite understand. Anyway, I make a serious effort to pay for as much as I can but basically I think software is to expensive.
  • dewington
    err...I did read the whole post and I think you're way off man. I've never downloaded a torrent in my life yet have spent serious amounts of cash on both hardware and software. I know plenty of people who have loads of software which is all torrented and you reach a point where you think "fuck it if everyone else is doing it then why am I spending thousands on this shit?". We're constantly getting fucked over by these companies anyway with the endless updates to both hardware and software making the version you've just forked out on worthless. That's what I call stealing. And refusing to offer support on older versions. And who the fuck are you to say if you're not making enough cash out of music then you're obviously not good enough to use the software?? I really don't think you've thought this thread through before posting.
  • Beaver
    Where can I download a safe pirate version of Logic 8 please?
  • cut back of beer for one week or so, come on man not everyone is us resident where you might do that. so fuck you. it's also nonsense that even a mac costs you 30-40 % more because you're european and even from hungary. so fuck you. one thing i invested in apogee duet is because it has the same price all over the world. even one pack of d'addario strings is 8 euros in a country where you gotta work 3 hours for a fuckin bigmac. so fuck you. and im happy i got my apple mac running logic studio! yeah fuck you.
  • Toro
    Hey folks remember don't limit your self to the internet... there's also stores, schools, shit hospital taking huge advantage of ALL of us let's see who else... and who got the balls like my boys on the streets running wallets kissing babies and keep it a 100... but nah that's WRONG LOL !! ya'll bunch crooks internet automobile wallstreet crroks.......... it don't matter, you take and you take and you take, but what do you give back bitches
  • Jamie
    Just because he refers to students as stereotypically being on drugs and spending all their money on beer, it makes me want to torrent it.
  • DDT
    "dmx"

    By your logic (see what I did there) car thieves make car prices more economical.

    I weep for the future.
  • DDT
    All you people are whining away at how expensive Logic and Apple computers are ...

    When sales go down because people steal the product, those who DO pay for it get a higher price.

    That's basic economics.

    So stop all the bitching and get a better job or go play with GB. I seriously doubt a 15 yr kid needs Logic. He only wants it because it is the latest software he can download and never use because GOD FORBID he might have to RTFM!

    A 15 yr old boy can handle almost anything except alcohol, women, and reading.

    Can't get a job? Move out of Detroit - trust me here, Detroit sucks.
  • dmx
    As someone who's brought all my software, I'm glad for piracy , because it forces the prices down.

    Software companies always claim that piracy makes things expensive for the consumer, despite study after study proving the opposite happens.

    The trick is that the market will literally compete against anything. Piracy provides heavy "hard" competition against commercial software, so it forces software companies to drop their prices to encourage people to licence.

    Ultimately honest consumers win big time because they get cheaper legal product, and the pirates , well I guess they'll just keep on doing what they do.
  • hi
  • Fred
    no anymore, look at a Macbook vers. a PC, search on the web, there isn't any differences. The price is a little bit above, but hey, you've got a nice and WORKING computer.
    So no need to complain now, you really have got the choice !

    Same for Windows, do they offer you Excell, just because you own Windows XP, or Vista ??

    Why should apple make discount ? you even don't own a Mac and probably never will… So don't bother arguing like 15 years ago.
  • justin
    LOOK EVERYONE....

    people convert to using macs because their wonderful software for audio/video editing.
    their computers are completely overpriced, and that's definitely no controversy.
    maybe if logic was made compatible with the PC's i already have, i would actually buy logic,

    but
    when you make someone spend 2k+ on a computer you could get 30-40% less, and THEN get the software, I think you're a little to greedy.

    Props to the people who made Logic, but fuck Apple for overpricing everything
  • Strugglin
    Why download it? well i'm not 13..i'm 21 and I dont have a professional studio and I still can't afford the software..I want what the pros use so that i can have pro quality..I'm an aspiring producer and yea i might use hacked software but just because i can't afford it I should totally give up music? Plain and simple...some people are lower than middle class...47grand a year is 'RICH!' in my eyes,I'm still in the hood/ghetto (and i dont drink or do any drugs and yes i work to support my kids,so fuck u stereotypers) but i still have the hopes and 'dreams' to make music and right now using pirated software to get professional quality is the only way i can do it.So there's one answer from 1 perspective of why people use a pirated Logic Pro rather than somethin lesser or cheaper.
  • Rod Hill
    Fuck Off you self righteous son of a bitch. Going around telling people what they can and can't do has nothing to do with you. I buy all my software and always will but don't tell others to just because I do. BTW love the site asshole!!
  • Motherfuckers
    Fuck you Will!! You can afford it, 'cause you have a job, high-paid, or some mother-fucking manager. Not everybody has enough money or budget. Those mother-fucking corporations so stupid, if the product's price can be lower, everybody can afford, who need to spend the fucking time to download from fucking internet????? If everybody can afford, and the product is great and powerful, of course, everybody love to buy. For example, if they sell for original price, $1500, maybe 10 people can afford in 500 people. Now they just earn $15000. If they sell that for $100, well, maybe 80% of 500 people think that is reasonable, but still 400 people want to buy, so, how much they can earn now???? $40000.....

    Those corporations are stupid moronic asses...
  • will
    I agree with the poster. Apple has done a great job of taking off the stupid restrictions of the software, and these idiots want to go pirating a piece of software they can buy for cheap. I payed for logic studio and am happy I did. Do yourself a favor and stop being a a**hole, get a job, and go buy the software.

    It's the only way apple will come out with other great products. I want my software to be dongle free, and you jerks make it bad for us legal users.

    Enough said
  • stephen
    I will use a pirated version of what ever I want whenever I feel like it. Glory of the internet. I have bought one CD in the past three years. I dont need to buy movies. I have access to an unlimited amount of resources and you better believe I am going to use it. I will buy logic when I have the money. But I dont. I cant cut back on the drugs and beer expense mostly because it doesnt exist. See, Im in school. Which consumes 85% of my life. work consumes the rest. I barely find time to eat and sleep so drugs and beer are void in my life right now. I have no extra money and I have no way of purchasing the erroneously expensive program so that mr big shot where ever can finally get his million dollar car, sorry wont do it. You can live your life just the way you want as long as I can as well.

    Torrents are not harmful. What is harmful is the greediness of assholes who think they own the world. Times are changing my friends, see, now we own the world. We set the prices, and we show demand. This is why the internet is the greatest thing of our lives. No big record studio executive will be determining what is good... we will... with blogs and everything else. No big shot CEO of some big ass corporation will be raping us of our money just because we want to make good music and do it with the same tools as the pros. The first company to see this and apply it will be the most successful company of our time.

    Before you go ahead and bitch any more about the internet remember this. It is hear for me and because of me, just as it is you. So embrace and use it because no matter how much anyone tries... the internet is and forever will be controlling our global economy.
  • john
    It really doesn't matter, either way; open source software will soon surpass the quality of marketed products.
    Also, it's noble to pay money for a product based on principle, but be aware of two things:
    -It's never noble to be self-righteous, assuming and condescending-- I, a college student, in fact do not regularly spend large sums of money on beer and drugs (suprise, suprise)
    -these principles that you hold dear have COMPLETELY evaded large companies like apple. They would, given the chance, take advantage of an "unethical" opportunity to make money. The companies that do have principles never survive to become as big as apple, because there are so many other competitors without principles and the cost drains that come with them. Apple would pirate software, too.
  • Andy
    ungo wrote : I DO IT TO REFUSE TO PAY TO SOME CORPORATION. THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT WILL PAY FOR IT OTHERS WHO CAN’T WON’T

    man,please,find yourself a job :D
  • Andy
    To the pirated software users and supporters : (those who say "fuck you,fuck steve jobs,fuck me,fuck you your mom ecc.ecc. )

    did you ever really try to WORK on cracked programs? i guess you kids just toy with it...well, cracked programs are UNSTABLE ,UNFUNCTIONAL,UNSAFE,THEY CRASH. Now go,please ,go work with them ! People is so fuckin' stupid. SO-FUCKIN'-STUPID !
  • mano
    whiners.... just a bunch of whiners~ oh pitiful me... I don't have any money... uh... try getting a job!!! people with that attitute will never be anything. you guy's ought to drive-by each other... the world will be better without you
  • Cookie
    I don't think that Apple should be angry about pirating. They sell an App for over a 1000 bucks and then just suddenly low it to less than 500! Of course all the owners of Logic 7 get mad!
  • ungo
    WHOEVER IS ARGUING AGAINST PIRATING IS SO OUT OF THE LOOP.
    THESE COMPANIES ARE HUGE BILLION AND MILLION DOLLAR CORPORATIONS THAT DON'T NEED MY MONEY.
    THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN JUST PIRATING THE SOFTWARE.

    I DO IT TO REFUSE TO PAY TO SOME CORPORATION. THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT WILL PAY FOR IT OTHERS WHO CAN'T WON'T. MAYBE EVEN IF YOUC AN AFFORD IT YOU WON'T PAY FOR IT. THESE THINGS SHOULD BE OPEN FOR ANYONE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON.
    IF WE CONTINUE TO KEEP THEM ONLY IN THE HANDS OF TEH RICH OR WHOEVER THAT LIMITS SOCIETY.
    FUCK THEIR COPYRIGHTS! FUCK THEIR RIDICULOUS PRICES! THERE ARE PLENTY OF COUNTRIES TAHT DONT HAVE COPYRIGHT LAWS BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT ANYTHING INVENTED OR MADE OR REALIZED SHOULD BE PUBLIC PROPERTY OPEN FOR LL TO ENJOY NOT JUST A PRIVILEGED FEW.

    FUCK COPYRIGHTS FOREVER! FUCK EM!
  • cat
    uhhhh to me the question is why not just torrent it and steal it?... its free, pretty much the same shit(you dont get the hardcopy of it but who needs hardcopies) apple makes enough money on their iPods that are made to break so that you keep going back and buying new ones. For a college student money is kidna hard to come buy, and when you do get a decent amount of it, i dont know about anyone else, but i dont wanna run to the apple store and buy a program with it.....everyone who is mad about people stealing programs is retarded, fuck apple and fuck the people who are just pissed because they spent their money on it because they didnt know how to just get it for free
  • Keyser
    Fuck you... i download it
  • George Jung
    All the dopeboys that bootleg it sell enough dope to afford it, trust me on that, they come to me dropping 200 at a minimum for a beat.
    As far as pirating, i bought FL5 so i don't see anything wrong using cracked new versions of FL. But pirating a program all together like logic is dumb. UNLESS, you're trying it. I'd wanna try a cracked version before i went out and bought real versions. I just got a cracked version of reason 3 to learn on (barnes and noble didnt have the book on reason 4), then i'm going to buy reason 4 as soon as i learn R3. And i see nothing wrong with that at all.
  • Evan
    It's a rough topic. I currently work for a reseller of audio software, but I'm also trying to make it in the recording business. I ripped Logic Pro so that I could learn it inside and out. I probably could have gotten Studio for $150 or so, but that $150 can be crippling when you have little to no intention of profiting from it.

    I will agree 100% that if you profit from a form of software, you owe it to the industry that is supporting you to break out the wallet and give something back. However, most people are reliable in that respect. It's not easy to drop $400 for Reason 4 when you don't know if its what you need, or something that you'll be good working with. I ripped it and used it for 4 months. I now own it.

    I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like 90% of the people ripping such programs are simply in it for the experience, or so say "Dude! I've got a $1500 program!"
  • JarjarBinx
    to DlDude

    I paid $1500 for Logic Pro 7. I'll be damned if I pay those mutherfuckers another cent. Why don't you try joining some kind of torrent community, i'm sure they have logic there.

    :)
  • DlDude
    where do u dl logic pro plz i need it
  • JarjarBinx
    SCREW THE CORPORATIONS THAT ARE RAPING OUR PLANET
    AND FUCK THEIR PROFITS

    PIRATE WHATEVER YOU WANT
    SINCE THEY ARE RAPING YOU UP THE ARSE ANYWAY
  • Marauder
    You're missing the forest for the trees. To apply to most jobs in the audio production world you need to know how to use a shit ton of applications, plug-ins, software synths, and so on. There isn't a person here who can afford to just go out and buy it all otherwise we would start our own studio/production company.

    The bigger point here is that in order to even get your foot in the door on a PD team requires that you have INSANE skills at EVERYTHING. How do you get to that point? With daily usage of the most popular applications and plug-ins. Since I have already established that owning all of these apps as someone looking for an entry level position is a huge joke then "piracy" is the only other means you have.

    If you are going to sit and wait until you have enough money to upgrade to 8 then by all means do so and let your moral compass guide you. While you're doing that I am learning Logic 8 so when I get an interview and they ask me which version of Logic I have knowledge or practical experience with I can say the latest.

    You're missing the forest for the trees. To apply to most jobs in the audio production world you need to know how to use a shit ton of applications, plug-ins, software synths, and so on. There isn't a person here who can afford to just go out and buy it all otherwise we would start our own studio/production company.

    The bigger point here is that in order to even get your foot in the door on a PD team requires that you have INSANE skills at EVERYTHING. How do you get to that point? With daily usage of the most popular applications and plug-ins. Since I have already established that owning all of these apps as someone looking for an entry level position is a huge joke then "piracy" is the only other means you have. Most of the crap I “pirate” I don’t even want to use for my own personal projects! Why would I fork over a ton of money just to learn how to use it?

    The only way I use this software to make me money is by helping me get a job. Ultimately I have no choice about which apps are the most widely used so my hand is forced and I have no choice but to learn Logic, Nuendo-Cubase, ProTools, Digital Performer, BIAS Peak Pro, Sound Forge, Vegas, Gigastudio, Ableton, Reason,Waves Diamond plug-in bundle and on and on and on. With the exception of ProTools fuck those other programs. Everybody has their favorite DAW which is yet ANOTHER reason I am forced to learn inferior software and nod my head like “Oh yeah I can see how it’s better” NOT!! How does a person even have the time to learn all this shit. I do but I make time and wish I could spend it doing something other than fucking around with a piece of shit application. I don’t have a choice however and so I am forced to learn how to use whatever whoever likes the most at that moment.

    If you are going to sit and wait until you have enough money to upgrade to 8 then by all means do so and let your moral compass guide you. While you're doing that I am learning Logic 8 so when I get an interview and they ask me which version of Logic I have knowledge or practical experience with I can say the latest.

    American business is not based on "fairness" what a joke. The way we are taught from public schools on is to procrastinate, and cram, and cheat, and whatever to get the results we want while remaining as hedonistic as possible. Not a great education but it does prepare us for dealing with business as an American. This is called "it's not how you play the game it's how you win it". I'm glad there are morally guided people still around because it makes it easier, that much more, for me to stand out and get ahead faster.

    I was like you until this past year when I realized all of my knowledge that I attained in school was becoming useless because technology changes so rapidly. So I stopped letting my own morality get in the way of staying abreast in the audio world and downloaded everything I could possibly get my hands on. Basically this invisible moral force was only affecting me and was certainly not making an impact on pirated software. So in a sense I was the only person holding me back. Fuck that …

    Carry on.
  • MoMo
    Blow. Screw you, your mom, this blog, your mom again.
  • Joana
    If you can’t afford Logic Pro 8 then you don’t need it?lol
  • J
    I can easily understand students pirating this software ONLY FOR THE DURATION OF THEIR STUDIES.

    Sometimes the discount really just isn't enough to make it affordable. I'm a design student who works at our campus computer store, so I know exactly how much all of this software costs. My major requires a Mac Book Pro, and then has classes where you can get by using labs but encourage the use of Logic 8 Pro, ProTools/an M-Box of some kind, Adobe CS3 Design Premium, and Final Cut Studio. If you want to really keep up with this stuff and harness your skills that's a grand total of $1600 (thats a kind estimate too) after a required $2500 computer, tuition, rent, etc. etc...

    I have older versions of most of this software and I get by, but when I graduate I plan to save up and buy the ones that will be most useful to me with a student discount or for the retail price so they'll be upgradeable later.

    Also, companies like apple aren't losing money from people downloading Logic to "play around" because those are people who wouldn't have ever bought it anyway.
  • Brian
    Oh boohoo, pirates, cry some more why don't you? Many of us are private users, not companies. I assure you these pirates would buy this junk if they could. If it weren't for pirates I imagine there would be a lot less people skilled at using this software as well. The world is chaos for a reason, embrace it, I do!
  • j-den
    Stop crying, piracy support organised crime, and those people who can't afford, the piece of software, for what every reason, granted if you got the doe to fork out for it then do it. but if not, do what you got to do to get your shit right. Even the top people have used pirate software. just accept it it's part of the digital revolution.


    J-DEN
  • Mo Sun
    Blow. Screw you. Screw Apple. Screw this blog, your mom, and the $1000 that Bill Gates does not deserve to stash in his empire. If could steal cars and get away with it I would. If I could steal cable tv I would (and do). If I can steal someones song I will. But I will check them at the show, or in this case buy their $2600+ MacBook Pro. Maybe the people have spoken? Maybe there still is a shred of Democracy in this f'd up world! Maybe the consumer has finally found a way to negotiate on their terms. Where they will not be taken to the cleaners wherever the opportunity presents itself.

    MoSun
  • atheos
    There is only one problem. I'd like to get Logic Express but I DO WANT to evaluate my software before purchase. Apple doesn't offer this option, no trial version, nothing. Yes, it's cheap for a student like me. On the other hand, I don't really have that much money that I could just buy a software to try it out. I've never really used Logic so I can't count on the fact I *might* like it. I've been thinking of Cubase Studio 4 as well but I'm quite out of luck since I'd like to give these software a try on my Mac before I pay anything.

    The only reason I haven't downloaded LE8 torrent is the fact that there aren't any on the public trackers.
  • admin
    Hi Austin,

    When I was in High School two things were different I guess. First of all, I didn't demand that I had 256 tracks of 192khz audio with a professional editing and mixing environment. I did record, and even sold albums. First recording to cassette tape, then recording to very simple software such as some of the first versions of Cakewalk using a simple soundcard. Then I got a Digi001 and Protools shortly after when I started making a little more money from recording friends, and doing other audio work.

    The second thing that apparently was different, was even at my various jobs in high school I was willing to save up to buy this gear. Asides from my first job at a grocery store, I didn't ever work for min wage like that but I worked VERY hard and saved all of my money towards audio equipment. I was able to buy a few guitars, drum machines, an Akai S-5000 (When they were new and expensive) and a Digi001. No one gave me the money.

    You should get out of audio production immediately. If you aren't willing to put in 100 hours of work even to buy some gear, then you don't love it enough.

    Furthermore, what can't you do in Garageband instead? Or just get Logic Express if you can't afford Logic Pro.

    Yes Austin, there are more people out there who would rather have it free. I want a BMW. I'd like one for free. Maybe should I go to the dealership and steal one? More people, afterall, want one for free than to pay.

    -dave
  • austin
    does anyone know where to download all the utilities also i have logic, but i would love to have all the other stuff that comes with it. the pirate bay is being difficult.

    thanks to those of you who make software sharing possible.

    btw i make $5.85 an hour and work for 20 hours a week im in high school and am trying to see if i would like to go into audio production after i graduate, spending 500 to see if it is what i want to do is a little outrageous.

    buy it if you think its wrong. there are more people out there who would rather have it free.
  • Tim
    I agree that Logic Pro 7 was overpriced, however Logic 8 Studio is now a very reasonable price when you compare it to its competitors. If you are going to use music production software to make money then you should pay for it, whether it's Logic, Pro-Tools, Cubase or anything else. If you are setting up a studio and can't afford the cost of Logic Pro 8, the software that your entire business will centre around, then you probably need to re-think your business plan!

    I have less of a problem with students downloading the software to learn on as long as they buy the real version if they use it consistently. As an ex audio engineering student myself I understand how important it is to stay up to date and learn as many software packages as possible, but as soon as your use of the software becomes professional rather than educational then the use of cracked software is not acceptable. It's the same as a car dealer selling stolen cars, you're using a stolen product to make a living.

    With regards to people who say they can't afford it, would you steal a car if you really wanted one but couldn't afford it? (Hopefully the answer to that is NO!) The reason people are downloading this software is because they CAN, it's not because they need it, they probably wouldn't really want it if it wasn't available for free, but because it is so widely available everyone feels that they must have it.

    For some reason society accepts software theft and doens't think of it as a crime. What everyone needs to realise is that the reason this kind of software is so expensive is because the manufacturers know that only a small proportion of their users will pay for it, the others will steal it, but they still have to cover their R&D costs and make a profit. All of you who illegally download cracked versions of Logic Pro are the very reason why it is so expensive. If everyone bought a genuine copy then Apple would recover their costs much faster and this could potentially see a price drop in the future. (Believe it or not Apple know how to retain their customer base, they are one of the best in the world when it comes to development and marketing, and they will drop prices if it is proven to boost sales and increase profit margins (the price drop from Logic Pro 7 to Logic 8 Studio proves this!)
  • trevor
    I do run a small studio, and i DID pay $1200 for Logic Pro. I also paid $3500 for a G5, and $130 for Leopard. Guess what? I CAN'T make any money now because Leopard broke logic. After spending about 16 hours on hold with Apple tech "support", I was told that there is no support for me now that 8 has been released. So after taking my $1200, Apple is demanding another $200 for me to have a functioning application. THERE IS NO BENEFIT FOR THE CONSUMER in purchasing software. Apple tech support has become essentially useless, and very limited. Companies must realize that if they give nothing to us, what motivation do we have to "do the right thing"? I bought Logic because i foolishly thought that course of action would guarantee me support if i ever had problems. I WAS WRONG. I have been left to solve my own problems, and $4830 poorer. Then there's the issue of the income i'm losing by not being able to do any recording. Apple is making tens of thousands of dollars every second. They do not care about me, or you. They care about money, and have made that crystal clear to me. If they will not support me, I will stop supporting them. I WILL NEVER BUY SOFTWARE AGAIN.
  • metafizik
    my simple " logic ".

    to buy logic, i need money.
    to make money, i have to become a pro.
    to become a pro , i have to learn logic.
    to learn logic, i have to buy logic.
    but
    to buy logic, i need money.
    to make money, i have to become a pro.
    to become a pro , i have to learn logic.
    so......
    to learn logic, i use pirated copy.

    please try to understand my "logic".
  • Anthony
    Hi everybody!
    i'm using cracked logic for my own education and i don't making money for it. i promiss if i'll have enough money for buy it, i'll do it. now i haven't =(
  • Ni
    On the apple education store site, logic now retails for just over 100 pounds uk, can't argue with that, i was never able to afford logic until now, way to go apple
  • stirforce
    I dont think it actually has anything to do with you what people download to make music. If they can not afford logic studio but need it, or actually know how to use it, that is what they will do. Logic express is actually a lesser app. Your comment about 'if you dont make money from logic pro why do you need it is a joke and very arrogant. As for the porsche comment. I bet you would take one if you could get it for free. The amount of money i have spent on apple computers actually irritates me and so i feel i will not fuel them any more of my cash unless i have to. Every time some one buys a new product from a ipod to mac pro its guaranteed within a few months they would have released a new faster or more powerful version. Everyone is entitled to a comment but dont talk shit whilst you sit on your gold plated thrown with all you original software that you apparently have never downloaded from a torrent.
  • Anonymous
    I disagree. As a professional who does make money off of these programs, I like to just try out the full version before I buy it. I use them for half a month or so, play around, then, if I like it, I buy it and start using it professionally. If I don't like it, I delete it and think nothing of it. I tend to like the programs, though, so I never seem to save any money this way.
  • Anonymous
    apple don't sell logic 8 in the country I currently live. apple.com's online store doesn't work for non US customers. so mr. Smart guy advice me please how to get it ?
  • Lester Spence
    Putting my two cents in...that should probably be saved for Logic Pro!


    There are two different arguments here. On the one hand it is relatively straightforward to say that John Smith that we know from around the way shouldn't "steal" Logic Pro when he can pay for it. This individualized argument is largely a moral one.



    But when we move to the level of tens of thousands of people, the individual moralistic arguments simply don't work. At this point you've got to take into account the distribution costs. Once a single copy is out there is costs NOTHING for the consumer to make copies. Distribution is free and (almost) instantaneous.



    Now you can call these folks...ALL these folks thieves all you want to. But using that language to describe their behavior takes us away from figuring out how to create a better profit making mode that recognizes the shift in the economics of circulation and consumption.



    (as an aside i think that using the average family's wages as an argument for paying full price for logic is a weak one. there are all types of goods that most people would take if they could get it for free without sanctions.)
  • Marc Fellerman
    im a film and design student as well as a music hobbyist. I have played guitar for many years and have a small studio in my room I use when producing my own work, as well as others. I primarily use garageband because even though i have previously owned pirated versions of logic express, there is obviously a loss of functionaliy. If i could afford to pay for logic pro, i probably would buy it, but with a 35,000 dollar a year tuition bill, hundreds of dollars in books, as well as mounting debt, I dont think its fair that students still get charged outrageous prices for apple products. Most "professionally" produced music these days sucks. Listen to Hendrix's production. its so poor you can hear him coughing in the opening verse of Foxy Lady. Did that stop people buying his records? i definately dont think so.


    Why raise prices on software which is only marginally better than a lot of freeware, or more reasonably priced applications out there. The way our society works is that only the wealthy are entitled to the tools enable to let them succeed further, while the poor (most of americans) are cut off from things that would allow greater expressions of things like art and music, because its not like any of these high class, wealthy celebrities are contributing anything to society.



    I say let everyone be able to download studio pro for free, never put limits on the internet, and if people pirate your music, so be it. ive seen my work pirated and used illegally. do i care? no. life is not about how much money you can make, and how you can stop other people making more money than you. if you have studio pro, 7 or 8, good for you. after purchasing adobe CS1 and having to upgrade to CS2 almost immediately after, then having to upgrade a computer in order to run new generation apple software, i will never purchase a piece of "high end" software for retail price, unless that software has already made me back the ammount of money it would cost to buy it.
  • Audio_1
    I think alot of you are missing the main reason why apple made this software avialable again, APPLE SALES ? ...


    I dont have a MAC and I want one cause with LOGIC 8 so cheap, I need to buy a MAC and Logic, which while I may need a Loan to do that, for the kind of music I can produce with logic I would pay the money. Also alot of downloaded Software is used briefly then people go back to what they already got!



    I've used FL for 2 or 3 yrs, but I find it has its limits. So

    now im looking forward to using Logic. will cost me 2,000 US for a 15" Laptop to run it , then i'll have to buy the software when I can afford it, Either Way Apple still wins :)
  • Diego
    i dont have money and i want to make music like a pro, so fuck u.
  • My name is David Fisher
    I don't know what the student discount for Express was. I that I purchased it when I was at Berklee for $500. Berklee I think started giving away Express as part of the laptop purchase program after I did that. I needed Pro however. The student discount now is smaller, but still exists. Many schools have it for even lower.


    I'm sorry I was away for a few days and forgot to check for comments. No censorship intended. Just trying to keep away the spammers.



    I got the wage data from http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2005/... could be wrong, but when I hit 2007, that's the wage that was shown. I didn't go out searching for the highest number I could find.



    I suppose that one of my main points is that Logic Express does pretty much everything that a hobbyist would want or need. The Pro version has a few extra bells, but does a Hobbyist need WaveBurner? No. Surround sound? No.



    Maybe I'm weird, but I don't mind Apple making a profit or their stock price going up. Again, I don't own any of their stock (or any stock for that matter). My father owns like 12 shares, but that's not my money.



    Gavno, again no censorship meant here. I appreciate the research you put out there. What it comes down to is that you have to make choices. Do I want a Minimoog or a baby? (I choose Minimoog). Do you want a car, or Logic and a nice laptop? I choose Logic/laptop. I walk where I go, and don't drive.



    Believe me, I have plenty of expenses too, and am by no means rich. Looking at my bank account at the moment is actually a scary thing. But there's a reason I haven't bought LP8 yet- I don't have the money. I'll get it when I have the money.
  • gavno
    David


    What, are you going to censor my comments and not make them public? Come on you self proclaimed pinko-commie. Where is the freedom of expression? For your information I left a commie country so that this will not happen and what do you know, americans are just as bad, censorship is everywhere and always for somebodies benefit.



    sorry maybe you are out of town.
  • lee p.
    Where are you reading that "the average wage in the US was 47,655.16 USD"?


    Are you sure you aren't referring to the average household income?
  • gavno
    David


    No offence but please do better research next time. The average family wage in the US is 36,952. This is before taxes. Take out what the governemen gets and you end up with approximately 27,714. Since we are talking about averages, the average family in the US is 3.18 individuals. The average rent for a family of 3 is 800-1000. That is 12 thousand a year now you got 15,714 left. Subtract annual costs of food at 80-100 per adult per month. lets take 100, you americans sure like to eat, 3.18 and you get roughly 4,000 per year. what do we have how 11,714. One car family- American Automobile Association states that the average cost for driving a vehicle is 6,400. this leaves roughly 5,000. wait there is more. some one takes the bus to work. at 35 bills per month you can take another 500 out. we are down to 4,500. no one wants to live naked so we need some clothes. 2% of salary is the average spending per person. kids are more expensive but will count them at 2%. this adds up to approximately 2,000 removed from our average family leaves them with 2,000. if you take one vacation it will eat it up even if you dont splerge. do you save it for the kid's college fund, retirement, rainy day, what. And we are not talking about a drinking, smoking or drug habbit either. I am sure I left out some of the AVERAGE expensis but I am sure you have an imagination and think for your self. So next time you are talking averages think about more than just a salary. try buing creative suite with an average incom. Not to mention a computer to run it on. Oh, one more thing, this estimate does not even include the cost of health care. Add that in and you are living below your means.



    shoot. I think I need a beer after this verbal diarrhea.



    Good Luck.
  • gavno
    David


    No offence but please do better research next time. The average family wage in the US is 36,952. This is before taxes. Take out what the governemen gets and you end up with approximately 27,714. Since we are talking about averages, the average family in the US is 3.18 individuals. The average rent for a family of 3 is 800-1000 per month. That is 12 thousand a year now you got 15,714 left. Subtract annual costs of food at 80-100 per adult per month. lets take 100, you americans sure like to eat, 3.18 and you get roughly 4,000 per year. what do we have how 11,714. One car family- American Automobile Association states that the average cost for driving a vehicle is 6,400. this leaves roughly 5,000. wait there is more. some one takes the bus to work. at 35 bills per month you can take another 500 out. we are down to 4,500. no one wants to live naked so we need some clothes. 2% of salary is the average spending per person. kids are more expensive but will count them at 2%. this adds up to approximately 2,000 removed from our average family leaves them with 2,000. if you take one vacation it will eat it up even if you dont splerge. do you save it for the kid's college fund, retirement, rainy day, what. And we are not talking about a drinking, smoking or drug habit either. I am sure I left out some of the AVERAGE expenses but I am sure you have an imagination and think for your self. So next time you are talking averages think about more than just a salary. try buying creative suite with an average income. Not to mention a computer to run it on.



    shoot. I think I need a beer after this verbal diarrhea.



    Good Luck.
  • SdB
    If you work for apple, you should know that there have never been cracked copies of Logic 7 Pro released simply because it was never cracked.. anyway I also think people should buy it if they are making money from the music they have created using the app. but not priced at $1000 or even half..
  • SdB
    you work for apple, no?


    Let the kids mess around with logic pro as much as they want, I really wish more people knew how to use this kind of killer music production app.(I teach people as well as produce artists nowadays after starting in the 80s on Ataris and then using macs with logic for over 8 years no using cubase ON PC ).



    The reason I say this is that

    I trust the new generation will use these kind of tools more creatively than people with plenty of skills and money use it for (mainly in hollywood). The awful music they come out with becomes our collective reality and creates a shit world. Also their output promotes zionist interests, American imperialism, lacks any kind of culture and promotes globalisation.



    So go ahead kids get the app. and show the world that you can create a better reality through making music that can bring people together and preserve a real sense of cultures by recording real sound from real people as opposed to loading garageband full of loops thinking you are making some groundbreaking 4/4 shit. If you need any help using these tools or getting a pro studio that fits in a box, do get in touch.

    logic@soundbringer.com

    Respect

    The SoundBringer
  • drew h
    I would not feel bad pirating Logic. Purely for one reason: it's made by Apple. It is an excellent program, but I will not fuel what Apple is. They make too much money off of everyone else, they won't get it from me.
    Sorry, Apple.

    I just don't support your astronomical profits.
  • A Realist..
    The only reason why people download it because you all provide it duh... And plus buying is not easy for most people especially in Detroit. Some people make a living in their own little rich way and scams, but none of you are looking at the fact that its hard living in this world and when you have no way of support by anybody with money. WHAT DO YOU DO? You get sick and tired of losing and you never Win . Thats why people Do what they Do so stop with your dumb azz negligence with people downloading. NO ONE will ever stop and 1 voice will not stop it either cuz the Government provided internet so why not use it in every way possible.
  • A Realist..
    The only reason why people download it because you all provide it duh... And plus buying is not easy for most people especially in Detroit. Some people make a living in their own little rich way and scams, but none of you are looking at the fact that its hard living in this world and when you have no way of support by anybody with money. WHAT DO YOU DO? You get sick and tired of losing and you never Win . Thats why people Do what they Do so stop with your dumb azz negligence with people downloading. NO ONE will ever stop and 1 voice will not stop it either cuz the Government provided internet so why not use it in every way possible.
  • Jeff
    The student edition costs more than it used to now. $450 for "student software" is ridiculous. Express went from $100 for version 7 student pricing to $180 for version 8. Thats only a $20 discount from retail. They're practically asking students who would have bought it for $100 to pirate it with a policy like that.
  • j
    I could agree with your anti-piracy talk, but not with these points. Seriously. The world isn't divided between those who make a living with music and those students who drink beer and take drug all day. As a student in Music and Digital Technology I should use the Pro version. Garage band is certainly not an option. Express could be fine but learning to use/use tools is not a leisure it's part of my studies. I'm just a serious student - there are some. Having a job to pay apartment, food etc, there's not much left by the end of the month to buy beer and drug if I wanted to - but it's far from being the case anyway.


    So I understand your point of view but it just needs to be qualified, in my opinion. I disagree if people shamelessly use some cracked software, but I can understand the reason for this. Don't get me wrong, I'll buy it in the end. It will take me ages to save the money needed, but I will, and be glad to buy it (same apply for music dl, by the way).



    mm... I think I just felt attacked as I'm a happy sober student... :-) Sorry for rambling.
  • My name is David Fisher
    Gavno-


    I know that it's unlikely that you read this, but you should know that in 2007 the average wage in the US was 47,655.16 USD.



    Someone making 47,655.16 should be able to afford a $500 piece of software if they find that its essential software for their jobs or leisure.



    Surely there are people looking for support, but that does not indicate that the software is flawed. You clearly haven't used Logic 8, because I have yet to hear a professional user qualify it as a lemon.
  • gavno
    Think a bit. All of these software manufacurers price ther shitty software so high that an individual making an avarage wage could never afford it. Discouts offered hardly help, and the software must have plenty of buggs if the apple stores are jammed with people looking for help. For the price that is being charged, the sofware should be bulletproof. If these manufacturers do not want piracy, than price the software so that people can afford it instead of going for megaprofits. And as far as beer and drugs are concerned, you are the one that needs to cut that out. It seems like they have clouded your judgement you moron.
  • My name is David Fisher
    Sam-


    logic express isn't any lower quality per se than Logic Pro. It has lesser features. If you cannot afford Logic Pro, then saving might be in order (a lost art in the US), or evaluating my needs.



    I cannot afford a Porsche, neither do i need a porsche. A lesser car as the features that I need.
  • sam
    umm what about if you want a pro quality program but you cant afford one? I use Ableton Live that I payed for, but there is no way i could pay for Logic Pro, though i wouldnt mind using it.
  • Stephen Studios
    I checked.. Apple only discounts it by $50... Cheap Apple!
  • Michael
    agreed.


    I work for Apple, at an Apple Store in Los Angeles, and the even on the few occasions that I'm on the sales floor, you'd be surprised how many people come in asking for support with their cracked copies of Logic Pro 7. Granted, this was back when it still retailed for $1200, but still. Not Right.
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